The Telemachia

1) What does Telemachus learns about "civilization"?

Telemachus learns that what is happening in his house is not the norm, and that civilization is actually quite functional and proper beyond the borders of Ithaca. He learns from King Nestor and Menelaus what true civilized feasting and hospitality is. The stark difference between his fathers' estate being abused, and the Nestors' respectful orderly meal is apparent in the Odyssey. From the two royal houses Telemachus learns that being civilized means not submitting to every whim, but reeling in your human emotions in order to benefit the collective in a society. Nestor and Menelaus exhibit this by always keeping in mind the almighty gods and not allowing their pride take over their minds. They are hospitable to strangers in need, feeding and entertaining them, repaying the numerous favours other have done them, and even just preparing for a future where they may be in the desperate strangers' shoes, despite them being powerful kings. Telemachus observes the order in the dining hall, all the guests paying respect to their host, their host respecting them. He sees the guests not exploiting, but receiving in a mannered way what the host has to offer. Any of the persons at the feast could exploit their providers' generosity, but because of their civilized nature they reel in their temptations and uphold the societal ideals of respect, humility, and order.

2)What does Telemachus learn about "hero"?

Telemachus learns what the true meaning of heroism is from the stories Nestor and Menelaus tell of his father. They speak of his father's noble suffering, his willingness to risk his life for his comrades, and his renowned cunning, all things that shape Telemachus' view of what a true hero is. Again a stark difference is seen between the male figures at home and the male figures abroad. On Ithaca the men who are held the highest are the cowards who eat away at his estate and exploit the absence of great men. In the realm of the greats, men are courageous respectful men who adhere to civil norms, strive to make the lives of those around them better, and above all have a balance between the kleos and the time returned home. It is from these lessons that Telemachus will learn what it requires to become a hero, an important step in the absence of Odysseus.

3) Is it possible to be over-civilized?

Telemachus learns from King Menelaus that it is possible to be over-civilized. When Telemachus first enters King Menelaus’ palace, the king does not even insist upon knowing his guests’ names or purpose. This is being too generous because the stranger could be a man with bad intentions, or a man un-deserving of such hospitality.
Menelaus offers Telemachus horses and additional nights of feasting, while these are enticing offers, Telemachus sees that he must not dabble in luxuries but go out and face the challenges that plague him. This is an example of over-civilization because Menelaus offers the civilized feast and gift, while Telemachus must see where the limits are, and react accordingly.

Too much of a good thing

3) Is it possible to be "over-civilized"?

Yes, it is possible to be over civilized, just like it is possible to be undoer-civilized. It is all about finding the golden mean. Like in Goldilocks and the Tree Bears one chair's too tall, one's too short, and the one's just right. We need to find what is "just right" for everything. Too much freedom and you have anarchy, to little and you have dictatorship. But the middle ground is where you want to be.

Telemachus learns this at King Menelaus' palace. When Menelaus says on page 125 "..Bring them in, strangers, guests, to share our flowing feast..." He unconditional invited them into his palace, not checking to see if they were friends or foes. This is over civilized, yes we should be hospitable but only within reasonable limits. You don't invite the enemy into your house so they can pillage about and destroy your possessions. Again, its all about the golden mean, hitting the "middle mark" so to speak.

How to be a Hero

2) What does Telemachus learn about "hero"?

There are two very important lesson that Telemachus learns in Books 3 and 4,the first being that it is the sons duty to defend their father kleos should they be unable to claim it them selves. He learns this through hearing the stories of Orestes and how he avenged his fathers death. Also by being around Pisistratus who is a perfect example of what a heroes son should be like.

The other lesson that Telemachus learns is one from Nestor. Nestor tells Telemachus that it is okay to go away from home to be a hero, but you must always return home. And vice versa. A hero can not stay home all of the time, they need to leave home, slay the proverbial dragon than come back. This lesson also is about gaining heroic glory or kleos. You need to return home in order to get your kleos, which is why Odysseus must return home.

Civilization 101

1) What does Telemachus learns about "civilization"?

Telemachus leearns a very impotant lesson on page 127 when he comments that Menelaus' treasured rivaled those in Zeus's palace, and Menelaus chastised Telemachus for thinking that any human could rival the Gods. He learns that has learned about the importance of knowing your place; and that not even a king can rival the Gods. Having some form of hierarchy is an important part of Greek civilization, and knowing your place in that order.

Telemachus also learn about the importance of hospitality. Although there has been previous evidence that he is already aware of the importance of hospitality; seeing as he took in Pallas-Athena when she arrives at his house. But on his journey Telemachus learns just how important hospitality is to civilization because he relies on it during his adventure. Like the hospitality that Menelaus shows him, a stranger, on page 144.

The Odyssey: Books Three to Four

In order to be civilized, a culture or an individual must be brought out of a barbaric state, and adapt to a more simple social and private life. In The Odyssey Telemachus develops the understanding that in order to have a civilization a heiarchy must be in place, and must be understood by all individuals. For instance, when a person of authority and power such as Telemachus would call an assembly it was a custom that gifts were given at the assembly as a way of controlling. When gifts are given there is often the subconscious sence of obligation and debt to that person. The act of giving gifts could be used to ensure an indiviauls loyalty to another. This remains to be true today when guests feel an obligation to bring a hostess gift when attending a party.

A hero can be defined by many different traits. In The Odyssey, Telemachus characterizes a hero as someone who possess' courage, and is able to obtain heroic glory upon their nostos (return home.) A hero, in Telemachus' eyes, is one who stands out from the crowd for their actions of excellence, whether those actions be through a journey, bravery, or strength.

I personally think that it is not only possible, but also very common to be over civilized. Over civilized is the point of adapting to such a degree that a society, or an individual looses sight of what was important to them, or what their goals were in the first place. Today, in the twenty-first century, North American counties are very close to, if not already have become, over civilized. With the advancments in technology, the speed of communication, and effortless accessibility to practically whatever you want, North American countries have become, by far, the most civilized continent in the world. People generally now see their posessions, and the materialistic factors of their life among the most crucial things in their survival. However, in many of the countries in Europe they live a much more "down to earth" lifestyle.

Heroes: helping to build civilizations since 1400 BC

Civilization: Telemechus learns that recognizing rank and hierarchy is essential to building any civilization, especially politically. A special emphasis was put on what it means for members of a civilization to be considered civilized. The way people feasted said a lot about them too. Civilized people were polite, hospitable, respectful, and caring while the suitors represented the barbaric and uncivilized through their gorging, rude, and chaotic ways.

Hero: Telemechus learns that a hero is a man of great courage and most importantly has a strong sense of self control and restraint. A hero is someone who is bold, brave, and fearless, achieving glory when they return home (nostos) and leaving a legacy when they are gone. But most importantly, they victoriously emerge after enduring some form of suffering to prove their determination, skill/intelligence, and strength. The greater the suffering the greater the KLEOS.

Overcivilized: the point at which a society becomes so far developed that its people begin to lose a sense of priority within their life and compassion for the people around them. I think there becomes a point at which society can be too civilized for its own good. As a result, morals may become skewed, religion may eventually seem useless, and the legal system may ultimately become so structured and unforgiving that is in fact unjust or unfair. What drives a society to crave so much structure? And is the technology of our century taking us down this emotionless path?

Three Questions

What does it mean to be civilized?

Being civilized means that a person or place is brought to a stage of social, cultural or moral development that is considered more advanced than other people or places.

What does it mean to be a hero?

A hero is a person who is admired and looked up to by others for their exceptional achievements. Being a hero means others look up to you and admire you for your accomplishments in life.

Is it possible to be over civilized?

My opinion is that it is not possible to be over civilized because social, cultural, and moral aspects of life can always improve, for the reason that nothing is perfect. The flawed inherent features of these aspects of life creates limitless room for development.

Books 3-4, The Odyssey

After reading through the books of 3 and 4 of the Odyssey,we see how Telemachus travels around Greece in search of his manlihood. The purpose of this is to gain experience and knowledge of his father. In book 3 he has no luck hearing of any decent information about his father, but is told a story of King Agamenmon and his fate. This alowed Telemachus to hear a story of the men who fought beside his father. Next in book 4 he travels to Sparta to speak with the King and Queen. Helen is the first to recognize Telemachus because of how much he looks liek is father. They both rejoice Telemachus' mind with epic deeds that his father accomplished in the Trojan war. They then talk about his cunning ( metis ) actions. His idea of the Trojan horse and is mastmind plan of dressing up as a beggar to sneak into the walls of Troy.

Putting myself in Telemachus' shoes, I believe that hearing these great stories about his father would encourage him to make a change in his life. It is just like watching a profesisional sport. You watch and learn. In your mind you try and picture yourself doing the things that these heroesin your mind are doing. This will then give you that little boost of confidence that is needed. Being confident is the number one thing that a man like Telemachus needs in his life. He has nothing to look forward or up to in his life because of his fathers absence. The more Telemachus hears, watches, and sees about what a great impact his father Odyssesus had on the Greeks lives, the more he will mature into the hero that he was meant to be.

Bobby D's view

A hero is someone who understands the responsibility that comes with his freedom.
Bob Dylan

I found this quote and thought I'd share a modern icon's view on the hero question. This view is very pro-service, pro-army and the host of other sacrifices one is sought to make to defend ones freedom. Again the ideal of freedom comes up, a classical notion, and the notion of the servant leader arises as well. A lot of people in contemporary 20th century society identify with Dylan, and his ideas and songs have become the inspiration for much of the music that has been, and is being produced up until today. It's interesting to see how one of the great communicators of the 20th century, someone who shaped our modern perspective, follows philosophies founded over 3 millennia ago, on a mountainous landscape, covered in olive trees.