The Way Every Society Should Be

"To the Greeks, the idea of the city did not mainly suggest a geographic location, or monumental architecture, but a community--a group of citizens...These citizens were the city." - Greek Civilization: Hellas and Hellenism, War and the City: The Rise of the Polis

This is one of the main reasons why the Greeks were able to prosper. They formed a group, and every person in that group was part of the whole. In some places today, many people in certain societies are discriminated against whether it be due to sex, religion, etc. The Greeks did not discriminate based on unchangeable qualities and were able to receive input from everyone. When everyone works together, great things can be accomplished. This was also shown by the Greeks when they fought in the Persian wars.

Kleos in the Odyssey

Kleos, in Greek, means renown or honour, it symbolizes what you hear about someone through another person. A Greek hero may accomplish this renown through great deeds, or pains he endures for glory. Once the Greek hero accomplishes this, his own glory earned is passed down to his son to be remembered by also. It is apparent in the Odyssey because Telemachus is worried over what has happened to his father, Odysseus. Telemachus wishes to carry on the accomplishments of his father’s deeds and hopes that his father has not yet died an inglorious death.

Cunning & brute strength is a deadly combination

In the odyssey book Odysseus shows us his knowledge frequently but the one time it really stood out was in the one eyed giants cave. Instead of just using his brute strength when the giant was sleeping to poke out his eye . He told the monster his so called name as "Nobody" and then got the giant drunk in order for him to pass out so they could poke his eye with the burning olive stake. This then leads to the giant screaming in pain/agony and when his Friends hear the screaming come to help, but they ask whats wrong and he replies" Nobody's Killing Me now by fraud and by force!" (book 9.line 445). This later on lead them to escape from the cave and continue there journey.

This shows that he new it would have to be much more than just stab the giants eye well sleeping and new that he would have to come up with a way in order for the giant to go into a heavy sleep therefore allowing them to set up for the jabbing of the olive stake in the eye. Also The name nobody was a huge factor because without it the giants Friends would have found Odysseus and his crew. Then the brute strength came in with the blinding of the giant. That's why cunning and brute strength is a deadly combination.

Alcohol

"...it's the wine that leads me on, the wild wine that sets the wisest man to sing at the top of his lungs, laugh like a fool--it drives the man to dancing...it even tempts him to blurt out stories better never told." - Odyssey, Book 14, Lines 527-530

I found this quote extremely interesting because it speaks to everyone. When we are drunk, it can bring about feelings / thoughts that are deep inside our mind. For example, we may not want to do something, but we do it when we are drunk because we're in a state of mind when our thoughts and feelings are vulnerable. Alcohol prompts Odysseus to tell the whole story with every detail to his old swineherd (he is able to conceal the fact that he is Odysseus though), and it also appears in a few other instances throughout the poem. For example, it makes the Cyclops act like a fool and causes his demise. This quote relates to the fact that alcohol (although we all drink it) is a horrible influence on us, but it can also show people a different side of us in some cases as well.

Ophelia, Act 4

"Let in the maid, that out a maid. Never departed more." (Ophelia, Act 4, Scene 5 p.101 line 56-57)

Poor Ophelia is always being used. She is used to spy on her boyfriend, Hamlet, by her father. And in used as a lover by Hamlet. She is let into his heart as a virgin and they very well know that they cannot marry because she isn't of royalty. And then she is let out of Hamlet's room not being a virgin. She is used by her father and lover.
Poor Ophelia! :(

The Kingdom of the Dead

“But you, Achilles,there’s not a man in the world more blest than you— there never has been, never will be one.Time was, when you were alive, we Argiveshonored you as a god, and now down here, I see,you lord it over the dead in all your power.So grieve no more at dying, great Achilles.”I reassured the ghost, but he broke out, protesting,“No winning words about death to me, shining Odysseus!By God, I’d rather slave on earth for another man—some dirt-poor tenant farmer who scrapes to keep alive—than rule down here over all the breathless dead.”
- (Book 11, 547-558)
Achilles and Odysseus argue because Odysseus is envious of the strength that Achilles won by and although he is now dead he was strong and did something great. However, Achilles is jealous that Odysseus is still alive and breathing

Kleos vs. The Value Of Life

“But you, Achilles,

there’s not a man in the world more blest than you—

there never has been, never will be one.

Time was, when you were alive, we Argives

honored you as a god, and now down here, I see,

you lord it over the dead in all your power.

So grieve no more at dying, great Achilles.”

I reassured the ghost, but he broke out, protesting,

“No winning words about death to me, shining Odysseus!

By god, I’d rather slave on earth for another man—

some dirt-poor tenant farmer who scrapes to keep alive—

than rule down here over all the breathless dead.”

This quote, more than any other shows the change between the Iliad and the Odyssey. The Iliad celebrated kleos, whereas the the Odyssey celebrates life, and Odysseus' wily way of preserving himself rather than going out in a burst of glory.

Although kleos is still clearly very important, the Odyssey acknowledges that there are things more important. It celebrates home, family, and life as opposed to glory, murder, and death.

"Coming together is a beginning; keeping together is progress; working together is
success." Henry Ford

Restrain Yourself, Heroically

"Listen to me, my comrades, brothers in harship. All ways of dying are hateful to us poor mortals, true, but to die of hunger, to starce to death- that's the worst of all. So up with you now, let's drive off the pick of Helios' sleek herds, slaughter them to the gods who rule the skies up there.l If we ever make it home to Ithaca, native ground, erect at once a glorious temple to the Sungod, line the walls with hoards of dazzling gifts! But if the Sun, inflames for his longhorn cattle, means to wreck our ship and the other gods pitch in- I'd rather die at sea, with one deep gulp of death, than die by inches on this desolate island here!" (Odyssey, book 12, 366)

What Eurylochus says in this quote can be described as mutinous in nature since it goes directly oppositely to what he and the rest of the crew were told not to do. This speech led through a series of events that eventually landed Odysseus in Ogygia, the place where he suffered significantly. Another event that was caused by this was Eurylochus' own death as well as that of the remaining crew. All this happened from a lack of heroic restraint.
The blame however can't be isolated to Eurylochus. Everyone, including Odysseus were feeling the results of days of brute effort and hardships after watching their own die, experiencing the six headed beast Scylla, and the cyclops as well. Eurylochus simply thought that he and the rest of the men deserve some kind of reward for their efforts. The key difference between Odysseus and Eurylochus is heroic restraint. Odysseus never breaks, and his will power is formidable. In the words of Eurylochus: "Your fighting spirit's stronger than ours, your stamina never fails. You must be made of iron head to foot." (Odyssey. Book 12. 302) When he says that, he is already admitting that he's weaker and thus he opens the doors to other possibilities that would lead only to paths of ease. In this case, he accepts death as an option, something that Odysseus wouldn't give into for many many years.
Heroic restraint means to avoid the path of the lazy and weak. It means to follow the path that will lead to kleos in your mind or others. It means to overcome hardships through discipline and effort. It means to be like Odysseus, and not like Eurylochus.

Beliefs are mirrored

I thought of my own pithy little idea.
Let's just go with the general understanding that people with more conservative values tend to have religious ones as well, and people with more liberal values tend to be agnostic/atheist.
LET'S JUST SAY THAT. This is the assumption for my little idea.

Liberals think it's so silly that conservatives put their beliefs into religion -- "that could never happen", where conservatives find it so silly that liberals put their beliefs into politics -- "that could never work".

For example, conservatives are typically practical and don't believe in change, so much. They don't have much of a dream for society, they just like to stay the same and believe what they've always believed. They have faith in the familiar.
Alternately, liberals are typically open-minded to new things and advocate change, so they are dreamers in a political sense. They have hope that there will be a flawless system.

You can't stereotype either wing, I know, but it's interesting that each side has its own "silly" belief system that the other side just cannot seem to understand.

When I say conservatives, I do NOT mean neocons, by the way. Think WASP.

Justified Quote?

"All men need the gods..." - Odyssey, Book 3 Line 55

The Hallmark of The Second-Rater

"Miss Taggart, do you know the hallmark of the seond-rater? It's resentment of another man's achievement. Those touch mediocrities who sit trembling lest someone's work prove greater than their own -- they have no inkling of the lonelineess that comes when you reach the top."

~Atlas Shrugged, Ayn Rand

This quote reminded me of the difference between the suitors and Odysseus. The suitors resent Odysseus' great power and immense wealth that is maintained in his absence out of respect. Seeing this, they attempt to steal it, thinking that to be great, all it takes is to have the crown placed upon your head. They are weak men who know that they are not great, and so try, instead of becoming great, to eliminate all greatness, as we see in their attempts to kill Telemachus.

Does Suffering really lead to success?

Many say you must suffer in order to really succeed which i believe to a certain extend. The reason for this is because even today you see the ones who have struggled the most and have been through the worst of times usually are the ones that push them self in order to succeed and get away from that horrible lifestyle they have lived. An example is many athletes, most of them grew up in a very poor run down city and they push them self in order to be the best they can be and help provide there family's with a better lifestyle.

In the Book The Odyssey King Odysseus is suffering on the island of Troy for years ,but from that he has learned many things and required many strengths.Also if he had not been through what he has Odysseus would not be as much as a hero then he was in Ithaca since he was fighting for his city.But also if you suffered to much that could be a horrible thing since it will haunt you for the rest of your life and may even cause you to snap. That is why i believe suffering does help you succeed but only to a certain extend.

Dr. Seuss

"Always say what's on your mind. 'Cause those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind." Dr. Seuss

This is quoted from Dr. Seuss, a kind of kooky writer, who displays examples of this quote throughout his works. Dr. Seuss shows this is his different children's books, that the only people who matter are the people who care enough to read his works.

I think that this quote is striking because I agree with it. The only people who should care about what you say are the people that really of are importance in your life, and those people who care about you don't mind if you say exactly how you are feeling. Yet those people who put down your thoughts or simply do not care, thus they do not matter and are a complete waste of valuable time!

"Only the insecure strive for security."

"Only the insecure strive for security."

This quote says a lot to me and defines several people in my life. Those who are unhappy with themselves or who are just insecure, constantly find themselves trying to be secure with different people who really could care less about them. It shows when people try too hard! This is why I truly believe that you must be happy and confident with yourself before you can be happy with anybody else!

An Epic Hero

"Epic Hero"

An epic hero is never shown better anywhere else than in the Odyssey. Homer uses Odyseus as an example of an epic hero,as he demonstrates bravery, dignity, brawn, smarts and determination throughout the story. Odyseus regullarly faces adversaries that try to bring him down on his journey aswell as making allies along the way. In many ways Odyseus brings about certain morals that can teach people proper ways to live by in their given society. Epic hero's are also regular people with fears like everyone else, but in the end they overcome them to accomplish whats best. Some examples of Odyseus proving to be an epic hero is when he escapes the cave of the Cyclops in Book 9 showing bravery, smarts and determination or when he navigates away from scylla in Book 11 showing smarts and bravery.

Odysseus: Hero of Suffering

"...So now they writhed, gasping as Scylla swung them up her cliff and there at her cavern's mouth she bolted them down raw - screaming out, flinging their arms toward me, lost in that mortal struggle ... Of all the pitiful things I've had to witness, suffering, searching out the pathways of the sea, this wrenched my heart the most."
The Odyssey, Book 12, Lines 275-282

Odysseus is a man who has suffered the most vexatious, extreme, excruciating pain over the course of 20 years; fighting bravely and better than most in one of the most epic wars in history in addition to being away from his beloved family and battling the endless obstacles on his way to native land. This quote is just from one of those many interferences, during the voyage through the man-eating monster Scylla's territory. Odysseus tells the story of this voyage, in which he lost six men to each of the Scylla's six lethal heads, and mentions that of all the physical and emotional pain he has had to suffer, "this wrenched my heart the most". The fact that he describes this event as the most pain he has experienced in these twenty years says a great deal about his character. He is someone who would choose themselves to die over any other, and it pains him most to see his men dying than it did to, for example, fight off the deadly Cyclops. Odysseus is a hero to be valued not only for his immense strength, but also for his chivalrous amiability.

Remember Me, I Beg You!

"Remember me, I beg you! Don't sail off

and desert me, left behind unwept, unburied, don't,

or my curse may draw god's fury on your head."

The Odyssey, Book 11, Line 79

This quote just goes to show the importance of kleos and being remembered. Every Greek man wants glory, he wants his tale to be passed on forever, and therefore be immortalized through his deeds. This is something that Odysseus strives for throughout the novel, even when it puts him in danger as it did with the Cyclops. Odysseus' nostos is also just a quest for eternal glory. If he does not make it home, he cannot have his tale passed on by his family and friends.

This quote also emphasizes the importance of a proper burial . Ceremony in general is very important to the Greeks, as one can see in their elaborate sacrificial rights, the greeting of guests, and during meal time.

Sidetracks

Odysseus is on a epic journey to his native land. Along the way there are many sidetracks whether he is defeating a cyclops or watching his men go under the spell and turn into pigs. We can relate this to our own lives. We ourselves are on a odyssey. Between the transition of becoming the miner niner to finally grade 12 with new responsibilities and so to be our next step to university. I'm curious to see what our sidetracks will be and where they will take us.

Homer the Feminist

"Come Eurycleia,
move the sturdy bedstead of our bridal chamber-
that room the master built with his own hands.
Take it out now sturdy bed that it is,
and spread it deep with fleece,
blankets and lustrous throws to keep him warm."


Book 23 serves the purpose of tying together the whole novel. It brings the main plotline to a close with the reunion of Odysseus and his family. It also brings the story back to many of its main themes. Obviously, there is the theme of nostos with the return of Odysseus to his home and his family. There is also one last clever bit of metis in this chapter with the above quote.
This quote also emphasizes the forward-thinkingness of Homer. He had some very modern feminist views. He gives women a lot more power in the story than they are normally give. He also portrays women such as Penelope as being very strong, clever people, different from men but clearly able to match them in a conflict. He makes it seem like women and men are often incredibly different, but equal. A man like Achilles could clearly beat Penelope in a battle of the flesh, but Penelope could destroy Achilles in a battle of the wits, as she proves with her quick thinking in the above quote.

What do you get from greatness?

“But you, Achilles,
there’s not a man in the world more blest than you—
there never has been, never will be one.
Time was, when you were alive, we Argives
honored you as a god, and now down here, I see,
you lord it over the dead in all your power.
So grieve no more at dying, great Achilles.”

I reassured the ghost, but he broke out, protesting,
“No winning words about death to me, shining Odysseus!
By god, I’d rather slave on earth for another man—
some dirt-poor tenant farmer who scrapes to keep alive—
than rule down here over all the breathless dead.”
Book 11, pg 265, line 547

This is a conversation between Odysseus and Achilles during Odysseus's time talking with various people in the underworld. Both wish for the lives each are living or have lived, according to Achilles he is longing to live again as Odysseus is now. But on the other hand Odysseus wishes to be just as great as Achilles is now, and wants to be as celebrated a hero as he. I believe this conversation shows how suffering once again arises in The Odyssey. Achilles may be dead and suffering but at the same time his accomplishments are still remembered and glorified by all. To Achilles though, he would rather be suffering on earth just for the chance to live again and give up all his greatness. In this case greatness may just give you suffering in the end, unlike earlier instances in the book were they show suffering gives greatness.

Bright Eyed Athena

Throughout the Odyssey, Athena, the daughter of Zeus and Metis, is often referred to as "bright eyed". This is because she is known to have had bright silvery coloured eyes. It's said that the city of Athens was owned by Posiedon however he was ruling it poorly and Athena, being the warrior that she was decided to take over Athens. She planted the first domesticated olive tree, which is known to always symbolize Athena and her bright eyes, for when the olive leaves blow the under side of them is a bright silvery colour, just like Athena's eyes. Posiedon challenged Athena to a mortal combat, and Athena would have really hurt Posiedon, after all, fighting is her specialty! So the Gods all voted instead, the males all voted for Posiedon, and the females voted for Athena, however Zues refused to vote, causing Athan to win. She named Athens after her and that is where the first domesticated olive tree originated.

Athena Inspires the Prince: Telemachus wears the pants with his Mother

"So mother, go back to your quarters. Tend to your own tasks, the distaff and the loom, and keep the women working hard as well. As for giving orders, men will see to that, but I most of all: I hold the reins of power in this house" Telemachus, line 410, page 89.
At this point, Telemachus has already met with Athena and she has inspired him to take on an Odyssey of his own. After meeting with Athena aka. Mentes, he feels more powerful, for example, when he says this to his mother he is taking the reins of the household. Telemachus is making this clear to his mother that things are going to change now, that she best go to her room while he gets the suitors out of their home and he takes control of the house.

Odyssey

"When young Dawn with her rose-red fingers shone once more"

- The Odyssey, Page 216 Line 190

Throughout this novel this line is repeated over and over. Why? I believe it is because Dawn represents rebirth, the "dawning" of a new time. By using this in the Odyssey Homer is almost starting a new chapter within a chapter - he is stating a beginning. Dawning, the beginning, it all comes back to that. To see Dawn is to start a new day, to begin fresh - to start over. Odysseus is trying to start over, trying to erase the years of absence, and everytime he sees the Dawn he begins anew.

Quick and painless vs. slow and painful

The Odyssey
BOOK 12: CATTLE OF THE SUN
pg. 282

Eurylochus - "All ways of dying are hateful to us poor mortals,
true, but to die of hunger, starve to death--
that's the worst of all...
I'd rather die at sea, with one deep gulp of death,
than die by inches on this desolate island here!"

Kurt Cobain (from Neil Young song "Hey Hey, My My", in his suicide note) -
"It's better to burn out than to fade away."

Eurylochos is speaking of the temptation to not suffer, if the same fate is inevitable either way. It's ironic because his fate is sealed once he kills one of Helios's cattle. There is always temptation to "just get it over with", so the slow decline of whatever the case may be, either fame or life, isn't being endured. In both cases, they chose the indulgent way out, something fundamentally selfish, but somewhat understandable in desperate situations.

Food Before Thought

"Help yourselves to food, and welcome! Once you've dined we'll ask who you are."
Book 4, page 126, line 68, The Odyssey

Hospitality seems to be a very significant issue that arises whenever a stranger is welcomed into one's household. Most evidently, food is the preliminary way to welcome a visitor since this is shown when Telemachus reaches the palaces of Menelaus and Nestor. Homer repeats a phrase again and again to show that the need for food is no longer necessary; "and when they'd put aside desire for food and drink," on pages 82, 109, 122, and 126.
This level of welcome is unheard of in our society but in their time, it seems as though it was expected from a host. Even in Ithica where the suitors are showing an abundant lacking of dike, they show that they expect hospitality by helping themselves to the crops and meat of the land.
This quote does an excellent job at displaying how key hospitality is to their society.

Harry Chapin's odyssey: Story of a Life

This is a ballad song by Harry Chapin called "Story of a Life". The song reminded me of The Odyssey in that it considers life as "story"; Odysseus also seeks to have his life told as story both by him and by minstrels. The Odyssey is, essentially, a "story of a life".

Like The Odyssey, Chapin's song progresses from the narrator's boyhood to adulthood, where the narrator of Chapin's song undergoes a "nostos" journey. Ultimately, he finds the consummation of his life and story with his Love---a "Penelope"---in the last stanza. The music is folksie but solid. Listen to the YouTube clip while reading the lyrics.

Wisdom,Courage and Knowledge...Kings greatest powers?

These three attributes are the gods/kings greatest powers. Its not all about strength which most people believe when they think of gods/kings. We find out why these are so important , In The Odyssey Book 10 , Odysseus shows us why. an example is When the One eyed giant asks him what his name is and he replies as "nobody" which would later on come into effect and save his life along with his crew members. But the greatest example of knowledge is when Odysseus gets the giant drunk in order to blind him and therefore leading to his escape . Therefore without these three attributes Wisdom,Courage and knowledge , Odysseus probably would of died an not have been remembered.

Brains over Brawn

"so, Cyclopes, no weak coward it was whose crew you bent to devour there in your vaulted cave- you with your brutal force! Your filthy crimes came down on your own head, you shameless cannibal, daring to eat your guests in your own house- so Zeus and the other gods have paid you back!" - page 226, line 531-536


-At this part of the story Odysseus tricks the beast multiple times. First he told the beast that his ship was wrecked in a storm so that Cyclopes couldn't kill the rest of his men. He also gets Cyclopes drunk so he could easily hurt the beast without having to fight. Then he tells the beast that his name is no body because he knew that it would buy him some time for his escape. This quote is Odysseus's victory speech. Odysseus shows us that your brain can be your best weapon. He knew that he couldn't out fight Cyclopes so he used his mind instead of his muscle. In this quote he also says that what he has done is Cyclopes punishment from the gods for all the filthy crimes he has done.

A symbol that sets a new beginning

"Beneath two bushy olives sprung from the same root, one olive wild, the other well-bred stock."- Book 5, p.167, line 527, The Odyssey

The constant reference to olives by Homer can be related in many different ways towards the importance of them in their culture. But this quote refers both to the olives as a Greek symbol and also as reference to the change for Odysseus from an uncivil life to finally reaching civilization. This turning point in Odysseus's life is no more apparent here then it is any were else in the text. Odysseus must feel here more than ever that he has finally over come what he has left. Even though his journey home is not yet complete, his new beginning must make it seem like a successful campaign thus far. Likewise, it is somewhat like arriving home (civilization), the olive, no better a symbol for a Greek man than this.

Heroes Aren't Perfect

"Cyclopes- if any man on the face of this earth should ask you who blinded you, shamed you so- say Odysseus, raider of cities, he gouged out you eye, Latertes' son who makes his home in Ithaca!"
- The Odysseus, book 9 pg. 227, line 558

- Odysseus is a great example of a hero. He is very intelligent, strong and fearless. in this quote Odysseus shows that he isn't perfect. now that the beast cyclopes knows who Odysseus really is and where to find him he will travel to Ithaca to seek revenge on Odysseus. This is putting his people in great danger. He had the beast fooled by using the name "nobody" but Odysseus wants to be known as a hero that tricked the great Cyclopes. He doesn't realize that Cyclopes will come to Ithaca to get revenge on Odysseus and will kill or eat anyone that gets in his way. This is a great example of how heroes aren't perfect.

being at the top

"You've got to climb Mount Everest to reach The Valley of the Dolls. It's a brutal climb to reach that peak. You stand there waiting for the rush of exhiliration. But it doesn't come. You're alone and the feeling of loneliness is overpowering."
- Jacqueline Susann, Valley of the Dolls

A metaphor for the terrible thing that is show business. You climb and climb, but once you're at the top, you're completely beaten down. Your life has become fame and fortune, nothing else. All of your relationships disintegrate, and you crawl closer and closer to losing your mind. This is why many who are at the top turn to dolls (pills). You need a doll to wake up, and a doll to fall asleep again. They work faster if you take them with vodka. Your fame becomes infamy, you are referred to as "outrageous", "scandalous" and "messed up". You crack under the pressure and withdraw. Then you slowly fall into obscurity, into the Valley of the Dolls, never to rise again.
Terribly depressing book/movie.

Grief

"What good can come of grief?"
Said at least a couple of times in the tenth book of the Odyssey.

"Only pain makes it grow stronger. Only sorrow makes it kind. Contentment makes it wither, and joy seems to build walls around it. The heart is perverse, and it is cruel."
The Gum Thief - Douglas Coupland, page 63.

The first quote reminded me of the second, which again brings into play suffering, and how it is required to achieve greatness. Suffering is healthy for us to grow up, to become wise, to get from point A to point B.
It is not only required for the great, but for the simple. There is no good without evil, there is no appreciation of life without suffering.

To Feast...

"The tables, heaped with bread and meats, and drawing wine from a mixing-bowl the steward makes his rounds and keeps the winecups flowing. This, to my mind is the best that life can offer."
-Odysseus (The Odyssey, page 211)

This quote shows that Odysseus enjoys the simple pleasures of life, such as eating and drinking in excess, much like the common man does. Perhaps there is a message that Homer is trying to convey; that conversing with friends and family over food is one of the greatest, if not the greatest joy in life. It certainly shows the importance of hospitality and food, for without hospitality there is no community and without food there is no sustenance. These are the most important aspects of ancient Greek culture-along with work and suffering- so when both fuse together a celebration of sorts commences. There is also a message that relaxation, pleasure, and enjoyment can only take place after hardship has befallen a man. The fruits of one's labour become exponentially sweeter after one returns from a fulfilling day of toil and labour.

The Greatest Joy in Life

“No finer, greater gift in the world than that… when a man and woman possess their home, two minds, two hearts that work as one” – Homer, The Odyssey